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Post by darkehmen on Jan 18, 2008 10:03:27 GMT 1
Has everyone visited EMI's official site for Karajan's 100th? It's quite impressive: www.karajan100anniversary.com/The home page shows a clip from the Unitel film of the Symphonie Fantastique, and the "New Products" section includes a complete list of all of the recordings that are in EMI's forthcoming Karajan:The Complete EMI Recordings boxed sets. I was pleased to see that it does indeed include a recording that I've wanted to hear for ages -- Karajan's only Peter and the Wolf. Intriguingly, however, EMI has released both versions of the recording in different manners. The version with English-language narration, spoken by Peter Ustinov, is included in the Volume 1: The Complete Orchestral Recordings box, while the version with German-langauge narration, spoken by actress Romy Schneider, is being released as a separate CD: www.emiclassics.de/produkt/5099951802424#1The above page includes an audio excerpt from the recording, and it's completely magnificent -- and very cleanly remastered too. If EMI were smart, it would release the English-language version as a separate CD too. The work is one of the best musical-introduction pieces ever composed. ADDENDUM: Whatever you do, absolutely be sure to listen to the 70-min. audio documentary about Karajan that's provided free on the above-noted EMI microsite. It's one of the finest examinations of Karajan's sound, and how he achieved it, I've ever heard -- far better than any of the video documentaries to date. It features interviews with a number of musicians who worked with him, and their comments are extremely revealing. And the host's analysis is spot-on. Note in particular, at 27:44, a brilliant comparison of Karajan's recording of the "Skaters' Waltz" with another conductor's version. It vividly illustrates the nature of the "Karajan line." The second half of the audio documentary is less interesting, consisting mostly of singers' comments and opera-plot descriptions, but the first half of the doc is completely brilliant -- well worth a listen.
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lee
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Post by lee on Jan 19, 2008 17:00:41 GMT 1
Hi Darkehmen. Thank you for bring this to our attention; however, it has sadly confirmed my worst fears. At a time when EMI as a company is clearly struggling, their decision to release these recordings in such huge boxes is quite frankly bizarre. For example, who would want to purchase a box which included 2 recordings of the Missa Solemnis and Die Meistersingers in it? Likewise, who is going to purchase the 88 cd box of orchestral works ? Surely not the novice collector, who in any case would be more inclined to get the later Berlin recordings in more manageable chunks ? It's hardly an impulse purchase either. And surely not the Karajan completist - according to my reckoning the only recordings that have not appeared on CD in the West are the Leimer piano concerti, the Tchaikovsky Symphony No 4 (Berlin 1971), the mono 1955 Philharmonia Promenade Concert (1955) as well as the Peter and The Wolf and Mozart Toy Symphony. So you would need to purchase 84 cds of duplications to complete your collection - surely the answer would be to wait for them to hopefully appear individually, which is surely what should have happened in the first place ?
In any case, the release is incomplete. Missing are the Sousa marches that were taped in London in 1953, as well as the Bayreuth Ring Cycle from 1951 (they've only released Act III from Die Walkure) and the arias taped from Turandot with Schwarzkopf in Vienna 1948. Likewise EMI have the film of the Schwarzkpof Rosenkavalier and (I'm pretty sure) the Mozart Concerto for 3 Pianos from Paris in 1970 in their vaults too - so why no DVD release ?
I'm sorry to sound so grumpy, but I can't help feeling that there is a massive missed opportunity here. I wonder what others think ? Lee
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Post by darkehmen on Jan 19, 2008 19:58:45 GMT 1
the only recordings that have not appeared on CD in the West are the ... Mozart Toy Symphony. By the West you mean North America, yes? I do at least have the Toy Symphony via this release: www.amazon.de/Nachtmusik-Kindersinfonie-u-Karajan/dp/B0000263YH Missing are the Sousa marches that were taped in London in 1953, If those were for Columbia, wouldn't they be now under the aegis of Sony? EMI have the film of the Schwarzkpof Rosenkavalier Does EMI have this film now? Its latest release was given under the RCA/BMG label, and that's Sony: www.amazon.com/R-Strauss-Rosenkavalier-Elisabeth-Schwarzkopf/dp/B00005JIKT/and (I'm pretty sure) the Mozart Concerto for 3 Pianos from Paris in 1970 in their vaults too - so why no DVD release ? So THEY have this. Goodness, that would be something to see. I'm sorry to sound so grumpy, but I can't help feeling that there is a massive missed opportunity here. I wonder what others think ? Lee I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand, I see what you mean about duplication, and it not being terribly attractive to every consumer. On the other hand, I tend to look at it as a kind of "scholarly edition." In literary studies, whenever one references a poet's work in an essay, one is always encouraged to cite said author's Complete Works -- an edition that scholars take to be the definitive collection of the author's oeuvre; so the essays can simply be referenced "Works, v2, p.233," or whatever. Of course, there will never be a fully comprehensive single collection of all of Karajan's DG, EMI, Decca, etc. recordings together in a single edition, but this EMI release (and its corresponding DG issue) constitute the next best thing. From now on, informed discussions of Karajan's work will be able to refer to "EMI Works, CD 6, track 7," or whatever. It will give everyone a common reference point, rather than dozens of different releases -- especially useful for EMI, which loves to take recordings out of the catalogue, then put them back in, every few years. But as for it not actually being complete, that is exceedingly unfortunate, and kind of defeats the purpose of the whole project.
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lee
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Post by lee on Jan 21, 2008 17:35:57 GMT 1
Hi Darkehmen
Well by "West", I meant Europe/USA - so greetings from wet and grey London !
Thank you for the Toy Symphony source - I hadn't seen this before, certainly not in the UK.
In response to your other comments:
* The Sousa marches were recorded by Columbia Gramophone Company, which is now EMI although I can see how people confuse this with CBS/Sony.
* I always thought that the 1960's Rosenkavalier film was on EMI - maybe it was in Europe. That said if it's on BMG/Sony I fear that we'll never see it as its in competition with the Telemondial version (I read the reviews on the link which were most unflattering about its transfer to DVD, suggesting that it hasn't benn done properly)
* Karajan had only one contract with the Orchestre de Paris and that was with EMI, ergo the assumption that the Mozart concerto is within its vaults - I don't know they didn't release it coupled to the Symphonie Fantastique.
* I like your description of the EMI Karajan Centenary releases as a "definitive collection" - I take what you mean, but still maintain that I can't see them selling many copies and so in the current world of classical music recordings being run by accountants, worry about any negative impact on future releases.
I wonder if anyone reading this has any plans to buy the sets ?
Best regards, Lee
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Post by darkehmen on Jan 21, 2008 19:14:09 GMT 1
The Sousa marches were recorded by Columbia Gramophone Company, which is now EMI although I can see how people confuse this with CBS/Sony. Interesting. I was just going by what's written about the Columbia Gramophone Company on Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Graphophone_CompanySo although EMI sold the Columbia Gramophone name to Sony, they kept the catalogue, yes? Karajan had only one contract with the Orchestre de Paris and that was with EMI, ergo the assumption that the Mozart concerto is within its vaults - I don't know they didn't release it coupled to the Symphonie Fantastique. That makes a lot of sense. It also explains why EMI released that Symphonie Fantastique video in the first place (which always puzzled me). I suppose Unitel can license broadcasts of the Mozart film, but if anyone is to release it on home video, it would indeed have to be EMI. I wonder if anyone reading this has any plans to buy the sets ? I might -- the orchestral set, not the operas. Although I have many EMI Karajan operas, I don't have all that many of their orchestral recordings. My philosophy has always been to have one Karajan version of each work he recorded -- preferably the latest. There are a number of items in the collection that I don't have. So, maybe... The DG complete set, though, is far out of any reasonable price range, and there, I pretty much have every work that's offered -- at least in one version.
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lee
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Post by lee on Jan 29, 2008 14:31:52 GMT 1
I guess I need to eat some humble pie here. I've just noticed that the 88 CD boxed set (Vol 1) is set to be sold at about £80 - less than £1 per disc. A true bargain if ever there was one. And there was I expecting it to sell at around £5 per disc !!
Yours most apologetically, Lee
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Post by garfield on Mar 2, 2008 13:55:24 GMT 1
I'm thinking of buying both editions because they're very good value but, like a lot of people, I've already got loads of EMI Karajan CDs.
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john
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Post by john on Mar 2, 2008 22:39:48 GMT 1
Garfield
I have seen the box of the orchestral set and I will buy this as it has many recordings I do not have or have never heard, it is of course excellent value. The discs are in sleeves and therefore take up far less room than the original jewel cases.
I had 15 EMI CDs and sold 14 of them on e-bay which has paid for half of the new set.
John
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Post by darkehmen on Mar 3, 2008 8:12:19 GMT 1
That's an interesting decision, and it makes sense economically. Personally, though, I would never part with any jewel-case CDs that have now been duplicated in the new set. For one thing, I love the covers (especially the "Karajan Edition" discs). For another, I enjoy the liner notes. And for a third, whenever I've sold discs in the past, I've always ended up regretting it. For example, I sold my original CD of the DG Bartok "Concerto/Music for..." coupling, when the O.I.B.P. version was released on Galleria, but now I truly miss that fascinating original cover, with those transluscent cubes.
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Post by jhgaulard on Mar 4, 2008 11:36:02 GMT 1
Hello there! just joined the forum of this impressive website. Enjoying every bar of the EMI set, a real pleasure -- even if, as many, I bought a lot of the performances before.
A question -- trainspotting type. At the game of tracing what has been omitted/forgotten in the EMI boxsets (except for the traditional Festspiele documents etc) I spotted two:
A Ponchielli/Dance of the Hours of 1954 ...and a Wahnmonolog with Hans Hotter from 1948, both had been released before...
Two questions to the distinguished members of this Board: 1/ am I correct? 2/ Any more "missing" pieces (bar the Schwarzkop aria and the Sousa marches mentioned by lee below.
Speak soon Jacques-Henri
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Rosy
Senior Member
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Post by Rosy on Mar 4, 2008 19:20:20 GMT 1
Hi jhgaulard,
I'm sorry, I cannot help you!
There are a few members very informed about the discography. Usually they are conected in another time!
Best Regard
Rosy
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Post by ~Linda~ on Mar 6, 2008 19:20:39 GMT 1
A Ponchielli/Dance of the Hours of 1954 ...and a Wahnmonolog with Hans Hotter from 1948, both had been released before... Hello Welcome to the Forum. My apologies for not posting sooner but just at the moment the website has been keeping me busy. I have not bought the EMI boxed set but I know that some members have or are in the process of buying one so they will probably be of more assistance. I can conform, however, that there was a 1954 version of the Ponchielli Dance of the Hours with the Philharmonia which was released by EMI on CDM5 66603-2. I assume that the box set only has the 1960 version included. There a few instances of Karajan re-recording pieces for EMI within the space of a few years e.g. Tchaikovsky Sleeping Beauty and Swan Lake Ballet Suites (1952 and 1959) so there may be some more omissions in the set. I hope this is of some help Linda
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Post by jhgaulard on Mar 7, 2008 8:44:13 GMT 1
Many thanks for your kind reply Linda. Actually both the Swan Lake AND the Sleping Beauty have been released in their 52 AND 59 versions in the box, which is why I believe the Ponchielli and the Wahnmonolog have elapsed the vigilance of the keepers of the vault at EMI.
Also none of the previously "unpublished" recordings seem to have made it (the track listing mentions the 1951 Water music but it was a printing error).
It doesn't waste the pleasure of the set, it just makes it a tad annoying -- seems to me that if we spotted the Hotter/Ponchielli mistake, some people at EMI should have! A good week-end to all
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Post by henry on Mar 21, 2008 23:12:08 GMT 1
On Wednesday I got an email from the email-order company that I've ordered vol1 from. They said it'd be with me in 3 working days. What torture, the whole of the Good Friday, Easter Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday waiting for it to arrive!!!
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Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Mar 22, 2008 0:15:08 GMT 1
Welcome, Henry! You try to think like this: When will what you want, you will be a thousand times more happy! The music that you have so desired, will give you immense joy °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°Happy Easter! Rosy
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