john
Senior Member
Posts: 119
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Post by john on Apr 12, 2008 22:08:06 GMT 1
I have just looked at the 'Karajan' DVD a film by Robert Dornhelm.
It's not so much a film, more of a number clips from previous DVDs and Archives joined together by various updated comments from Opera singers and Conductors etc.
Whilst some of the items are unique (the speech from the Vienna new years day concert and unseen footage from the Sony 'live' Tchaikowsky Piano concerto with Kissin) a great deal of the film includes many items that are also included in the recent 'Karajan in Concert DVD portrait of HVK at 70. This is dissapointing.
My overall impression of this DVD after only one viewing is that it is a bit of a 'mish mash'
Having said that, there is of course a great deal to enjoy, some of the rehearsal extracts from various Operas (including Fidelio & Wagner) still leaves us wondering if more of this is locked away in Archives.
I look forward to comments from other members regarding this DVD.
John
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Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Apr 13, 2008 7:28:05 GMT 1
Dear John, In a few days, It should get a " Portrait" of DG. Maybe the same mentioned by you. If so , I'll not fail to express my humble opinion. ****** ****** I think someone else is speculating too with the excuse of Centenary. Thus, lack of respect ( something very reprehensible) to the Memory of the Maestro, and towards his admirers, and extended to all lovers of the Great Music! Rosy |
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Post by ~Linda~ on Apr 18, 2008 14:40:22 GMT 1
Like you, John I feel that the new film by Robert Dornhelm is a bit of a “mish-mash”. At least the 1978 film directed by Vojtech Jasny was called " Impressions of Herbert von Karajan” because this is what we get again, “impressions”. I would have preferred a more structured approach with an attempt at an analysis of his life and career, something along the lines of Mark Lawson’s BBC Radio 4 programme. Perhaps, this is where radio is the better medium because there must be a temptation for filmmakers to include as much archive footage as possible. (We see it in other areas of documentary filmmaking where the direction taken by the documentary is often dictated by the archive footage available.) However, having said that, the archive footage is always worth looking at, even if some of it has been seen before. Personally, the documentary film I have enjoyed the most is the 1999 Gernot Friedel film “So kann die Welt nicht bleiben" which I found particularly moving at the end. Linda |
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Rosy
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Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Apr 18, 2008 15:24:24 GMT 1
Personally, the documentary film I have enjoyed the most is the 1999 Gernot Friedel film “So kann die Welt nicht bleiben" which I found particularly moving at the end. Linda You know, Linda, the disk that movie, I always harbour with me, in my bag! That's why I chose that significant phrase under my "Avatar". In italian:" Il mondo non puo` continuare cosi`!" Ciao Rosy |
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Post by ~Linda~ on Apr 19, 2008 10:24:11 GMT 1
You know, Linda, the disk that movie, I always harbour with me, in my bag! That's why I chose that significant phrase under my "Avatar". In italian:" Il mondo non puo` continuare cosi`!" Ciao Rosy Rosy, thank you for giving us an Italian translation.  As a matter of interest in English it means, "The World Can't Stay Like This".
The film is released on DVD under the title "Herbert von Karajan 1908-1989: A Portrait" (ARTHAUS MUSIK 100 252). Just to add further confusion, another DVD was released, also in 1999, with the following similar title, "Herbert von Karajan: A Portrait" (IMMORTAL IMM 950001). This is a re-edited version of the film "Maestro, Maestro !" Linda |
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Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Apr 26, 2008 17:43:02 GMT 1
I have just looked at the 'Karajan' DVD a film by Robert Dornhelm. It's not so much a film, more of a number clips from previous DVDs and Archives joined together by various updated comments from Opera singers and Conductors etc. I look forward to comments from other members regarding this DVD. John Dear John, Thursday, 24 , I went to withdraw the DVD by Robert Dornhelm, "Karajan" or "Beauty as I see it". I must warn that the documentary I haven't seen everything, however, I like to tell the first impact! *******************************************************************************Foundamentaly and rationally, I'm agree with you and Linda. It seem a nice assembly that collect the best moment of all documentaries on Karajan! But I must admit my need to look all the movies on Maestro. There is always a sentence, a speech, a story that help me to understand this person really extraodinary. I look with great greed new topics on the musical approach or on relationship with the Orchestra. We are aware that arguments are vast as the universe and a little "mysterious", and then, each element is precious. For us, movies like this, are important emotionally; instead, in my opinion, they are useful for people who want to approach the Art of Herbert von Karajan. ********************************************************************************There is a great thing in which many people agree: with him, making music was a joy! And I would add that his joy can also transmit it to us; thanks to his legacy, there are no obstacle space-time! ...more details later... Rosy |
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Post by ~Linda~ on Apr 27, 2008 18:04:12 GMT 1
It is interesting that Rosy should post her comments on the Dornhelm film as last night I watched the DVD again and wondered if my initial response had been a little dismissive. As you know from my earlier comments I felt that a more structured analysis of Karajan’s life and work would have been more appropriate to celebrate the centenary and perhaps this view coloured my judgement about Dornhelm’s film.
I have to admit that I enjoyed the film more on my second viewing and although I had seen the majority of the archive footage before there was material new to me which is always of interest. There are a wide range of commentators which include Karajan’s widow and his two daughters, as well as the former German Chancellor, Helmut Schmidt. The “impressions” of Karajan given by these contributors form the basis of the documentary and on this level the film works well.
Also, of great interest is the accompanying booklet by Richard Osborne who interviews himself about Karajan (a technique he used in the January 2008 “Gramophone” magazine). His succinct analysis, often illustrated by references to the film, brings the reader to the following view of how Karajan should be remembered:
“…….a superb craftsman-conductor who really knew his trade…………an extraordinary man who lived through extraordinary times. One of the most remarkable men of his age”
Linda
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Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Apr 27, 2008 20:29:28 GMT 1
It is interesting that Rosy should post her comments on the Dornhelm film as last night I watched the DVD again and wondered if my initial response had been a little dismissive. Curious and beautiful coincidence! Maybe, Linda, all of us on this journey towards Karajan,looking deep in him, which we can also see on the surface. Karajan while conducting the Symphony n. 9 by Beethoven, give us priceless emotions, also, Karajan laughing when he care the direction of an Opera, or Karajan which loosens the tension of a rehearsal with a witty, causes pleasant and sometimes poignant emotions. Listening to the interviewees, we have a pale measure of importance that has still the passing through this land of a man from the great artistic gifts, from the vivid intelligence, by his live for music, to give himself to his Art until the end of his life! **************************************************************************Rosy |
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Rosy
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Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Apr 28, 2008 10:59:34 GMT 1
...from my previous post.. I was delighted to read your post, Linda, because it shows all the tiles are important to complete....the contour of the mosaic. The real completion is mere illusion. The music and the minds of those to make music are sources without end. Sources pure joy! ****** ****** I was unjustly prevented about this DVD, as I was about Eliette's book. Now, I must admit that I was conquered by its simplicity! P.S. My considerations on the Eliette's book, I write them in the appropriate board. Rosy |
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thitch
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Posts: 25
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Post by thitch on May 25, 2008 8:54:52 GMT 1
Now you have to consider, I've only ever seen "Maestro! Maestro!" up to this point. Maybe there are some other Karajan documentaries I can compare to, but I'm going on the basis of these two; I've just finished with Beauty As I See It ... and all I can say is WOW! I'd say, maybe, there's only about 20% footage that I'd seen before. I thought it was so well-crafted, respectful and even educational, I'm going out on a limb and describing it as the best one yet. The best scene that I thought was when Herbert was in his swimming pool ... DON'T get my hair wet! Or at least, not while the camera is on me. If I wanted to show someone a film of what I thought the Maestro was all about, I'm definitely going to give them this one, along with the Clouzot rehearsal disc. Top Marks from me!
Best regards,
Tim.
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john
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Posts: 119
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Post by john on May 25, 2008 19:59:41 GMT 1
The Dornhelm film definately grows on you the more you watch it.
I agree it is clearly the best HVK film available and it is very well made.
Early on I was a bit critical about the use of film we have seen before, I still feel that the ending of the film with the flying eagle to be almost a copy of the end of 'Maestro Maestro' and that is a bit disapointing.
John
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Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on May 25, 2008 21:09:35 GMT 1
Early on I was a bit critical about the use of film we have seen before, I still feel that the ending of the film with the flying eagle to be almost a copy of the end of 'Maestro Maestro' and that is a bit disapointing. John Dear John, In the beautiful film "Herbert von Karajan - A Portrait", by Gernot Friedel, at the beginning and, especially, at the end, there is an eagle flying high in the sky. If you are interested, in the section Anecdotes , there is one on my post titled "..as an Eagle flying high in the sky" which tell just one eagle. ****** ****** Rosy |
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Rosy
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Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on May 26, 2008 0:24:26 GMT 1
Now you have to consider, I've only ever seen "Maestro! Maestro!" up to this point. Maybe there are some other Karajan documentaries I can compare to, but I'm going on the basis of these two; Best regards, Tim. Hello Tim! I will propose some documentaries that I saw and that I consider important to learn more about the Maestro and sometimes with surprise, have fun with him! ****** ****** - Herbert von Karajan a Portrait by Jurgen Haase, Immortal 1999, Bonus CD
"This DVD package, focusing on an artistically sensitive biographical film, offers unusually thoughtful and compelling views of man who embodied the grandest of the classical traditions.- Herbert von Karajan - A Portrait, by Gernot Friedel, Arthaus Music 1999
Titled "So Kann die Welt nicht bleiben"My opinion: Absolutely to see it! - Karajan in Concert N° 2 DVDs, DG 1978, Bonus Portrait by Vostech Jasny
"Releaning glimpses of Karajan at work and play, with rare footage of rehearsals, masterclasses, and interviews with the Maestro, artistic collaborators, and familymembers.I hope have done one thing welcome! Rosy |
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thitch
Junior Member
Posts: 25
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Post by thitch on May 26, 2008 1:57:07 GMT 1
Hi Rosy,
I'd like to get the Gernot Friedel film if possible, but from what I can determine it is only available in the PAL format - I need an NTSC/Region 0. I do plan to get Karajan in Concert (the DG disc) in the coming weeks ... primarily for the Weissenberg performance.
As a sideline, Bruno Monsaingeon's film on Yehudi Menuhin, The Violin of the Century, contains a brief clip of Karajan and the violinist performing Mozart, with Yehudi's comments as he watches the video many years after the fact.
Thanks for your comments,
Tim.
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Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on May 26, 2008 16:31:58 GMT 1
As a sideline, Bruno Monsaingeon's film on Yehudi Menuhin, The Violin of the Century, contains a brief clip of Karajan and the violinist performing Mozart, with Yehudi's comments as he watches the video many years after the fact. Tim. HI Tim! Excellent idea! (EMIclassics, Archive); I've just seen it at Amazon. Thank you! **********************************************************************Rosy |
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