Rosy
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Post by Rosy on Feb 3, 2008 21:39:30 GMT 1
A great example: " La Traviata "
I'd like to put the emphasis on Karajan's approach with my favourite composer :Giuseppe Verdi.
It's easy to fall into the pitfalls and sliding trivial; this can also happen to most expert and stringers conductors.
It's known that G. Verdi noted in detail the signs in his scores, but, we must take into account the art of interpreting, that we can not be completely objettive.
Verdi requires a study that goes in depth and.........even in height. For example, we think of " La Traviata "; it's beautiful, very enjoyable, it seem easy, but that Arturo Toscanini, he could explain that is not so! In "La Traviata", the death hovers from the first note ( violins grating ) . The toast " Libamo,libiamo... ", is certainly not cheerful as it seems! Whole Opera is immersed in the plot of Love and Death.
This is the Idea that the conductor must always pursue.
Karajan had entered deeply into Italian 0pera spirit; He knew maintain a proper rythm, always, however dramatic.
I read that Karajan, before facing an Italian Opera, for example, Vincenzo Bellini, he listened very carefully to Maestro Tullio Serafin's interpretation.
.....more.......................
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K620
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Post by K620 on Feb 4, 2008 0:05:28 GMT 1
Thanks, Rosy. I've always greatly enjoyed the two live recordings of Karajan's 1964 La Scala Traviata (the dress rehearsal with Freni and the premiere with Moffo -- indeed I don't know which I prefer!), and your comment sent me back to them with renewed appreciation. Yes indeed, the sense of impending death hangs in the air right from the start, in a way that we don't hear in many other performances.
How I wish someone had filmed that production! But at least both Freni and Moffo were filmed in the role later with other conductors -- and therefore I'm partly able to 'see' as well as 'hear' them, when I'm listening to the recordings.
And of course Karajan's Verdi productions are much better represented on film than (e.g.) his Wagner. We may not have his Traviata on film, but we do have his Trovatore, Don Carlo, Otello, Falstaff, and -- not so far away from opera -- the Requiem. Not a bad list!
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Rosy
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Post by Rosy on Feb 4, 2008 18:28:42 GMT 1
Hello K620!
Thank you for your summons!
About " La Traviata ", I was referring to the version with Mirella Freni, that is often mentioned ,because had several disputes at the Teatro alla Scala. Many conductors use to say:" ..............if it happened to Karajan............!".
Verdi's Requiem. Teatro alla Scala, 1967. It's a jewel, a masterpiece of balance between technical and extremely refined sensivity. It's still unbeatable for a series of happy mixtures; exceptional cast: Price-Cossotto-Pavarotti-Ghiaruov. The female voices blend and the complement one another. Pavarotti's voice,clear, self-confident, effortlessy, despite the young age, and the Great Maestro before him. Ghiaruov,beautiful voice, beautiful stamp, well tune with the Tenor. Herbert von Karajan, totally immersed inside Verdi's soul.
Rosy ..................more..................
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Rosy
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Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Feb 4, 2008 19:50:55 GMT 1
...I like to remember this particularity, that weakens the myth of the conductor " gruff"!
Herbert von Karajan, consciously used to vary the time of executions to support the vocal nature, and the changing breath conditions of singers. They worshipped him, of course!
Rosy
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john
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Post by john on Feb 4, 2008 23:44:53 GMT 1
Rosy
I am a great lover of Italian opera, especially Verdi.
For me Don carlos is a favourite, in 1978 I went to Salzburg to see the Karajan performance with Freni & Carreras however the 1986 DVD has Agnes Baltsa as Eboli, I feel her performance is one of the most emotional & powerful performances by any singer I have ever seen or heard, my 83 year old Mother also likes Baltsa very much and cries every time she watches this DVD.
The Karajan CDs of Un Ballo in Maschera have some wonderful sections in it, especially the scene in the graveyard or 'fields of death' with Gustavo & Amelia when Gustavo sings 'say you love me' the Cello's sing their Tristan like lament and the emotion of the music here is overwhelming.
Again near the end when Gustavo is dying the chorus lament 'merciful god, spare so great and generous a heart for us, he is a ray of your divine love on us poor souls on earth' The tender way in which Karajan shapes the music of this scene from the initial hushed voices through to the tremendous climax is for me nothing short of a miracle.
These are just a few memories from me from a fantastic Verdi/Karajan catalogue.
John
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K620
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Post by K620 on Feb 5, 2008 0:52:56 GMT 1
It's clear that Verdi had a very special place in Karajan's affections.
Karajan recorded all Verdi's overtures & preludes, even the very earliest. Remember, we're talking about a conductor who felt no obligation to record all Dvorak's or Sibelius's symphonies, or the Brahms Academic Festival Overture. Nor did he record anything from Mozart's or Wagner's earliest operas. Yet he obviously found something of interest in every phase of Verdi's career.
Record companies are fond of the rule "only German conductors really know German music, only Russian conductors really know Russian music, only English conductors really know English music", etc. The reality is different. Karajan was deeply interested in Verdi -- and Toscanini, we know, was deeply interested in Wagner.
John, I fully agree with your comments about Baltsa's Eboli. I remember my wife and I had never heard of her until the Karajan Don Carlo came out on LP... and after her first scene, we went back to the box cover and looked at the singer's name again. I find her Amneris on Karajan's audio Aida equally absorbing. Such performances go "from the heart to the heart", to use Beethoven's phrase.
I do wish that Karajan had lived long enough to see his Salzburg Ballo all the way through to live performance and DVD. The existing DVD of the production (with Solti conducting) is fine, but it's clear that the production hadn't gone through the final polishing stages. It tends to fuss over details and lose sight of the main lines -- a problem that often happens when a basically good opera production hasn't had enough polishing in rehearsal. At least we have the CDs!
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Rosy
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Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Feb 6, 2008 1:04:35 GMT 1
Thank you for your attention to the argument that I'm proposing. I intend to continue with: " Karajan and italian Tradition ".
I think I carry a novel type episodes; without " canovaccio "*. I hope to succed, even in small part in this enterprise, with your collaboration.
*: Program, more or less!!!
My big difficulty is the same as many italians: the no-study of the forein languages. I studied the idioms of our Fathers, Greek and Latin...................... but I don't know to ask for a glass of water in modern language!!!! Sigh, sigh..........
Rosy
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Rosy
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Post by Rosy on Feb 6, 2008 21:15:50 GMT 1
Dear John,
I'm very glad that you like my favourite composer, what I've followed since I was a child, as well as Giacomo Puccini. Beautiful the reference to your Mother; I send a kiss to her.
.... .... .... Italian Tradition:
In the region where I live, " le Marche ", come some of the pillars of the Musical Universe:
- Gianbattista Pergolesi ( Jesi, 1710- Pozzuoli, 1732 ) Emphasize the " Stabat Mater "and the Intermezzo " La serva padrona "
- Gaspare Spontini ( Maiolati, 1774-1851 )...Wagner ended up bowing before him!!! Emphasize " La Vestale "
- Gioacchino Rossini ( Pesaro, 1792- Parigi, 1868 ), " il cigno di Pesaro ". Called The Absolute. I really like Rossini's Opera seria as:Guglielmo tell, La donna del lago, Moise et Pharaon, that I saw to the Teatro alla Scala ; unforgettable interpretations of Maestro Riccardo Muti.
Three fundamental composers in the space of a few kilometres!
Although from other region, it's dutiful to mention Luigi Cherubini( Firenze, 1760- Parigi, 1842 ), basically composer. I'd like to put emphasis on the followig works: Lodoiska, Medea,( unbeatable Maria Callas ) ; Messa Solenne per il Principe Esterhazy, Messa Solenne in Fa Maggiore Di Chimay etc...........
Without these Great talents, the music scene would not been the same.
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Rosy
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Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Feb 7, 2008 2:43:07 GMT 1
"a pill"...... ".....His very special way to "legare " was already evident in the fluidity of gesture but, in my opinion, resulted from his ability to apply also to wind instruments breath the articulation of those arches: on other hand he could create through us, the sound he wanted." Franco Fantini, "spalla" dell'Orchestra del teatro alla Scala *** *** *** Enrico Stinchelli, "I grandi direttori d'Orchestra", Cremese editore .....................more.....................
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Rosy
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Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Feb 9, 2008 20:06:07 GMT 1
...In the 50s, Karajan was particulary active to the teatro alla Scala. He was really active everywhere. His domain, in music, was equal to that Carlo V: the sun never go down into his empire! Victor de Sabata, that Karajan greatly admired, saw far when invited him to Milano. Karajan's interpretations of Otello, Falstaff,but also Madama Butterfly ( Puccini ) and Cavalleria Rusticana ( Mascagni ), have changed the sign of the original Italian music. Karajan had outlined a way without return, that nobody can disregard.Yesterday like today.Karajan's signature. Only two words on gesture : " Do you grant me?". The latest attempt to explain a masterpiece of grace and measure. We know that his gesture is always been moderate, never a leap, for charity! But a great determintion in the attacks and in advantage slightly calulated.This deserves a speech to party. Elegant, Karajan was considered incongruous every excessive gesture. He avoided these excesses, even in the " strette ". His powerful identity, overlap the identity of the Composer... Perhaps his essence must be a secret!
Each his execution was the celebration of a rite....
These note I'm writing them with special affection, because my heart is towards those wanderful years, when the Maestro dwell in our Home, Teatro alla Scala ( Toscanini's Home ), spreading his talent to the handful...
Rosy ...............more...............
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Rosy
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Post by Rosy on Feb 10, 2008 19:02:25 GMT 1
...Were written rivers of ink on the beauty Karajan's sound. I also want to try...because this argument excites me very much. I'm aware that my attempt is one of the many clumsy ways to explain the inexplicable!!! The Beautiful Sound, we know, stems from continuing, ongoing, punctiliousing, maniacal , because karajan knows that from that source, can spout lnterpretation more pure and crystalline. To obtain full tune up ( accordi pieni ), Karajan asks cellos and basses, a light delay, behind to the all ( tutti ), the effect is a kind of bulge, an echo, that each time it draws us into a very surreal atmosphere. I would like to mention the poignant " cavate "of the cellos in "Ella giammai m'amo`", from Don Carlos, and in the " Intermezzo "of the Manon Lescaut of G. Puccini; the " sopracuti "of the violins in the final of the Aida; the brasses that seem to trigger earthquakes in the 1st act of the Otello and in the Verdi's Requiem . I remember a phrase that is imprinted in my mind: "The Karajan's sound delves into the soul of the score..."
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Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Feb 23, 2008 21:13:04 GMT 1
Dear Waldstein,
I don't have grasped well if you consider me a nationalist! Among the other, it's known, that we italians , we don't know appreciate our country, the incredible artistic and cultural heritage, the legacy of the great Artist, great Mind that my country has had the fortune of seen sprout. I'm not a nationalist. But, perhaps, you haven't understood the meaning of my post , regardless what I wrote. I try to explain it briefly, so my intention will be clear even to others that might to have misunderstood.
You may have noticed that, incidentally, I'm speaking of G. Verdi, because I've taken him as pretex. I don't delay too much in the spirit of italian Opera, because in this case focus is Karajan. I have almost taken as a pretext that, even if, the Magnificent Italian Tradition (!) dwell on approaches Karajan with the kind melodic italian. Sorry, but the music is always my dealy bread. I've grown into theatres and , in the seventies , I was able to understand the " unbearable Beauty "* that they gaves the Great Maestro. Waldstain, you know, Music is part of the historical context, and at that time, Karajan has worked in Italy ( about for thirty years! ). He had learned to speaks in italian when he had refugee in my own country, during the war.
When the Maestro was preparing an italian Opera as Norma , Lucia di Lammermoor, etc. he wasn't trying untill you have heard an interpretation of the M° Tullio Serafin. He addressed a new commitment with humility
..no matter where....
.............in Italy, in the Wordl!!!
Thank you for your attention, Waldstein
Rosy
*= Ingmar Bergmann The word was another, but I decided to change it, because it may be reason to misunderstandings
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Post by darkehmen on Feb 24, 2008 6:00:05 GMT 1
May I humble suggest that we avoid turning this thread into a discussion of the merits or shortcomings of nationalism? I think it's rather off-topic, and can only cause friction. It simply doesn't matter what people think of that (or any) political philosophy.
We can all enthuse about our respective preferences without needing to label them. Oh, and I don't think it's necessary to put down one singer/recording/etc. to praise another. Everyone will have their own favourites, and we can all respect someone else's preferences,
Just a thought.
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Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Feb 24, 2008 10:51:01 GMT 1
What a beautiful gift, Waldstein!!!Franco Corelli was born in Ancona, which the city where I was born I also. I knew him well. When there was a competition for young singers, he was a President and I was member of the jury " Amici della Lirica ", now, " Amici della Lirica Franco Corelli ". We debated very much because he was trying to replicate himself. He proposed a friend of mine genuine tenore " di grazia" ( seemed Tito Schipa! ) to become tenore " drammatico "! He wanted an heir, but these items are...a dream ( I love Mario del Monaco ); with respect for the singers today. Alexander, this is campanilismo, do you grant to me? No, no, I'm not absolutely offence! I like the dialogue between members; you've been sensitive to aware of my slight disappointment.....everything's OK ! Thank you, Alexander! Rosy
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Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
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Post by Rosy on Feb 24, 2008 21:19:42 GMT 1
An explanation
In my previous post on page 1, I wrote an adjective, which gave rise to interpretation evil. Adjettive is " unbearable " ( the real adjective was another ). Bad word, meaning orrible.
Let me groped to explain the reason that led a person to use that word, because the logical path seems interesting.
******************************************************************************* Nulla e` se non cio` che non e`...Nothing is if not what is not........( my bad translation ) W. Shakespeare, Macbeth
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The person, was sitting in the theatre. He waited with trepidation. Dark. Silence. The heart beats frantically. Applauses wild. Silence load of expectation and hope. The presence of the Maestro filled the Theatre. The levare of the baton, that marks the beginning of the Opera; Music invaded everything: theatre, air, minds, hearts. That moment out of the time and the space, was a Beauty unbearable. Like the pleasure sometimes meets the pain, so Beautiful it's the exponential confused with intolerance. It's certainly a paradoxe. The heart and intellect were not ready to accept the Supreme. The man is not ready to manifest Greatness of Divine through Music. This felt the man completely invaded by the Art that knows no words, it also acepts those brutal.........................................
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