Beethoven in Words

[darkehmen]

When I was young, I was quite completely obsessed with Beethoven. To me, he was not only the supreme composer (an honour I'd still give him, much as I've come to plumb the depths of Wagner), but the greatest of all artists. He was the epitome of the Romantic hero, the Promethean genius who endures the most acute suffering, and then sublimates it into creative energy. None of the various Beethoven biopics that have come out have even come close to presenting him as he really was. We usually see Beethoven the victim, Beethoven the pitiful. But Beethoven was no victim. Beethoven was a master.

I found a page of Beethoven quotes that I compiled from a number of sources, at that time -- as well as a few that I thought applied to him. I'd like to share these, below.

And though their lives were very different, I actually think that more than a few of these statements apply to HvK as well, especially in his later years. Even when he was in physical pain, even as the obstacles mounted, his artistic will would not allow him to surrender to his discomfort, but compelled him to overcome all, and to continue pressing out the Dionysian vintage.

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"Thus Fate knocks at the door." [on the opening bars of the Fifth Symphony]

"He is a base man who does not know how to die; I knew it as a boy of fifteen."

"Emotion suits women only; music ought to strike fire from the soul of a man."

"There have been thousands of princes and will be thousands more; there is only one Beethoven."

"Force, which is a unit, will always prevail against the majority which is divided."

"Pity that I do not understand the art of war as well as I do the art of music; I should yet conquer Napoléon!"

"I care nothing about your whole system of ethics. Power is the morality of men who stand out from the mass, and it is also mine."

"How humiliated I have felt if somebody standing beside me heard the sound of a flute in the distance and I heard nothing, or if somebody heard a shepherd sing and again I heard nothing...Such experiences almost made me despair, and I was on the point of putting an end to my life...The only thing that held me back was my art. For indeed it seemed to me impossible to leave this world before I had produced all the works that I felt the urge to compose; and thus I have dragged on this miserable existence . . . "

"So be it, then. For you, poor Beethoven, there is no outward happiness. You must create everything within yourself...only in the world of the imagination will you find friends."

"Did not Dædalus, shut up in the labyrinth, invent the wings which carried him out into the open air? Oh, I shall find them, too, these wings!"

"I am resolved to rise superior to every obstacle. With whom need I be afraid of measuring my strength? . . . I will take Fate by the throat. It shall not overcome me. Oh, how beautiful it is to be alive...would that I could live a thousand times!"

"I am the Bacchus who presses out the glorious wine for mankind. Whoever truly understands my music is freed thereby from the miseries that others carry about in them."

✠ ✠ ✠

"I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, and torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage." (Friedrich Nietzsche)

"How does the matter stand if it is your feeble observation alone that the deep inner continuity of Beethoven’s every composition eludes? If it is your fault alone that you do not understand the master’s language as the initiated understand it, that the portals of the innermost sanctuary remain closed to you?" (E.T.A. Hoffmann)

"I believe in God and Beethoven." (Richard Wagner)

[gp1972]

Good point! I also think that Beethoven represents the pinnacle of musical achievement, the point at which everything came together into a perfect unity. A lot of what followed was great too, but Beethoven was the highest peak in the mountain range.

A couple of years ago, I was ill with severe pneumonia and one of my strongest memories of lying in hospital under heavy sedation is the first movement of the fifth symphony running through my head constantly. The nurses later told me that I had been waving my hands around - I muat have been conducting myself! Karajan's first Berlin recording of that symphony was something that gave me great strength and comfort as I was recovering from my illness.

I think nobody conducts Beethoven with the required sense of energy and strength like Karajan. I have many recordings of the symphonies, but keep returning to those original Berlin recordings - for me, they have the energy and fire that is the only worthwhile aspect of more "modern" performances, but with dignity and beauty of sound that those modern performances often lack. I am convinced that Beethoven would have welcomed enthusiastically all the technological advances in musical instruments, just as he obviously wanted a piano capable of producing a bigger sound than the early instruments.

My only dilemma now is whether to get the recently re-pressed LP set of the Beethoven symphonies or the SACD remasters - which one will get me closer to the sound captured in the Jesus Christus Kirche in the early 1960s?

The character comparison between LvB and HvK is interesting. They were both extraordinary people. Perhaps HvK was a little more modest than Beethoven!

[darkehmen]

The relationship is also interesting musically. I've heard people variously complain about the "violence" in Karajan's conducting, then others about the "beauty" in his conducting. Don't they realize that all this is in the music to begin with, and that when HvK conducts Beethoven (or any composer) with power, or with beauty, that this is exactly what the composer felt, exactly what he wanted? To diminish these things in Beethoven is to diminish Beethoven itself -- it may be fashionable to do so, it may be very modern, but it's not Romantic. It's not Beethoven. And if people are uncomfortable with these things in Karajan's recordings, it simply means that they're uneasy with these things in the composers whose works he brings to life. It's hard for many people to grasp that people in other eras -- and artistic creators especially -- may not have shared our modern sensibilities. And they're all the greater for that reason.

I far prefer the digital set myself, and always will, and I also prefer to Philharmonie acoustics to those of the Jesus-Christus Kirche (except for certain works, like Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 4, for which you want that cavernous sound), but whichever interpretation one favours, I believe that Karajan's approach captures the essence of these works.

[Rosy]

Hello, darkehmen!


I read with great pleasure your post. Truly all of your posts are
very interesting and profound, especially particurarly those
that are written in this section. If I'd mastery of language, I'd
certanely put my contribution.

I want to confess to you that I'm obsessed by Beethoven's music
even if I'm not so young!
I often urgent need to hear all Symphonies; in particular the 3a and the 7a. Enormusly I like the " variations " of 5a Symphonia, and the second movement of the Symphonies No 3, 7, 9.

Why I favor Karajan's interpretation? The answer is in your written extensively posts.
I was very impressed by the story of gp1972.
The music owns really a therapeutic value. We think at Karajan's
researches and experiments. But the music is not so much a consolation, as an immense joy, the most beautiful gift of our Lord


Rosy


P.S. :For Beethoven's lovers :

" Beethoven, Autobiogafia di un genio ",
Lettere, pensieri ,diari,
ED. Classici Mondatori, pag. 142
1a ed. 1996

I hope has been translated into English, because it's very nice

[K620]

61rosy said:

If I'd mastery of language, I'd
certanely put my contribution.

Rosy, there's certainly no need for you to feel embarrassed about your use of language.

I know that it's always slow & difficult to write in a foreign language. But sometimes the final result may be clearer & more powerful than any native-born speaker could have managed.

English is such an irregular, inconsistent language that there's no unique "right way" to write it. George Orwell once published a set of very sensible rules for writing English. But his last rule was this: "Break any of these rules, sooner than say anything barbarous."

In other words, the only way to write good English is to forget about "good English", and just try to say things as clearly and simply as possible.

Some of the very best English writers have come from other countries. Joseph Conrad was Polish -- English was his third language -- and when he talked English, hardly anyone could understand what he was saying. Yet he wrote more vivid, more effective English than almost any native-born English writer of his time!

[Rosy]

Hello K620!

Thanks for your useful suggestions!
Please, tell me when the construction of the sentence has no meaning!
I try to improvement whit exercises.....

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Rosy

[Rosy]

You know, Darkehmen, because I repeat often, my fixation Beethoven-Karajan. I live with Beethoven and Karajan. Tonight, listening my prefer Symphonies, 3 and 7,(Adam's audio.Very poor and sad covers) I've raised the question about my inclination "sentimental" to listen to previous recording. Immersed in the splendid triumph of the strings of the Funeral March, I had an awareness of the absence of a....musical slumping!!! Impressive interpretations, where the technique merges with the pathos creating sublime balance. This was also in the previous interpretations, then I suppose that I'm drawn to what is less definitive. Although I'm aware that nothing is final!

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Rosy

[Rosy]

Hello Alexander!

I'm pedantic, I admit and this prompts me to make clarifications, which I believe must be due especially for Guests who read our articles, and this your post is very complex and interesting!
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Yes, Alexander, "De gustibus non disputandum est!" (= legacies and loves school!)," tastes not discuss!" Similary, the historical periods cannot be accepted opinions. Often there are specific dates that mark the beginning of a new Era. This is history.

Classicism: art- historical period that begin by half of the seventeenth century, until 1814/1815. The highest figures in music, F.J. Haydn and W.A. Mozart. Beethoven is considered a Pre-Romantic (hybrid).

Romanticism: It's surpass the Classicism of Haydn and Mozart. Distinguished representatives, L.van Beethoven (with the Corale ), H. Berlioz, R. Schumann, V. Bellini, G. Rossini, G. Verdi etc... Please, don't you confuse "Romantic", it's indeed a historical period, with "sentimental", which is a feelig that beyond the barriers of time!

Rosy