1962 Beethoven 9 Reissue

[prahcello]

Dear all,

DG will reissue the 1962 Beethoven 9th Symphony, HOPEFULLY remastered, and coupled with the 8th symphony.

The 3-CD set will include a disc of rehearsals. I am assuming that it will be mostly of the same material used for the SACD issue of the 1960s Beethoven cycle. Or perhaps DG will be generous and include more rehearsal excerpts from the 1962 sessions?

The release is scheduled for end of October

Paul

[stuartg]

Dear Paul thanks for the info on this important work.

I have the SACD box set (recorded Dec 1961 - Oct 1962). To my ears the sound quality is astonishing, even played on a regular CD machine. It hadn't occurred to me that this set hadn't been remastered.

Similarly, when I bought the EMI box set earlier this year, I had not given any thought to whether re-mastered versions would be used. Yesterday, on this site, Lee helpfully pointed out that the non-re-mastered versions had been used.

I must pay more attention!!

I guess one more CD of the ninth won't hurt any of us!!

SGQ

[prahcello]

The SACD edition of the 1962 Beethoven cycle did use remastered tapes as the source.

I am guessing that they might use other remastering techniques for the 3CD edition, if at all.

From Karajan's 3 DG cycles, only the 1970s Beethoven cycle has not been adequately remastered as of yet, bar the 9th. There was a German edition issued late last year, but that set has very artificial sound, as the engineers attempted to create a 'surround'-like sound.

Paul

[Rosy]

HI Stuart and Paul!

......about sound- a topic that particularly fascinates us Karajan's enthusiasts : a few days ago, on the radio, some competent said that best sound, the most natural sound, was that obtained with vinyl records. Then, the next tendency might be to turn back, however, using new and best knowledge. Other times I have heard this statement.

*** *** ***

Have you heard of these old and new possibilities?
Best Wishes
Rosy

[stuartg]

Thanks again Paul.

The sound on the 1961/2 cycle is very good so I am not surprised to find that the sound had been re-mastered.

Regards

SGQ

[stuartg]

Dear Rosy,

I find this a most interesting subject. I must say that I always preferred the analogue recordings from the 60s and 70s (of any artist, not just HvK). Indeed, as a teenager, one of my favourite rock bands was Premiata Forneria Marconi and many of my CDs of this band are AAD, which I think is superior.

However, a few months ago I went over some old threads on this site. Some members were saying that they preferred HvK's digital recordings. This was strange to me, but I could see these guys knew what they were talking about, so I re-listened to my digital recordings.

I had to agree that to an extent, they had a point and I was amazed to find that I actually preferred the digital recording of La Mer to the analogue 1960s recording. I know that some HvK enthusiasts would want my blood for saying that!

I have to admit that vinyl LPs can sound better than CDs; so long as they are being played on high end equipment. CDs just aren't quite the same.

Sadly, to rid myself of all the crack, pop and hiss of vinyl, I sold all my vinyl in one go to a dealer. I hate to think about all those wonderful Mahler LPs of HvK that I once had.

I will never completely get over selling my Das Lied Von Der Erde and Mahler 4! they were glorious LPs and the CDs just can't compete; and they are two very underrated performances. When the critics pour over the so called greatest recordings of these works they never seem mention HVK.

Getting back to your point Rosy, some of my friends are vinyl enthusiasts who spend infeasible amounts of money on their equipment. They believe vinyl is in a class of its own when it comes to sound quality - I think they may be right!

Regards

SGQ

[jhgaulard]

Slightly off-topic (and I apologiuze in advance if I missed the discussion in other parts of the forum) but I would appreciate some advice. EMI claims that they have remastered the 1950s set of Beethoven with the Philharmonia. I love this set I find it full of colour and energy. I personally believe there is nothing wrong with the 1989 mastering (3rd and 5th in particular sound awsome -- 5th in particular, very much "in-your-face" but great fun). To put a long story short, is it worth re-investing in the new Beethoven remastering, or shouldn't we bother?
Thanks for your help, JH

[jhgaulard]

All,
I have decided to reply to myself (yes, I know, me life is pretty sad!) since I have (very stupidly) bought the EMI remastering of the Philharmonia Beethoven set..

Well the recommendation is clear: SAVE MONEY.
The initial 1989 remastering was ample, with a lot of details and a lot of dynamics, it was simply very very impressive.

Now we have excess trebble, louder sound but one has the feeling that the sound specter (directly translated from French, don't know if this works in English) has been reduced. The sound is basically acid and too dry, not dissimilar to what Toscanini had to face in RCA's Studio 8-H.
As often in these things, less is good...but I am disappointed since EMI did a good job on die Walküre, Cosi and Hansel (among others)...

[Rosy]

Sept 19, 2008 12:32:07 GMT 1 jhgaulard said:

I have decided to reply to myself (yes, I know, me life is pretty sad!) since I have (very stupidly) bought the EMI remastering of the Philharmonia Beethoven set..

Dear Jaques-Henry,

This regrettable thing could happen to me who I'm Beethoven's fanatical and I will not resist, as you all know, the insistent appeals of the "couple sirens Karajan -Beethoven"!

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Seriously, I'm very sorry, Jaques-Henry, and I thank you for giving me stop in time! I will confess that EMI edition indicted, was in my wish list!!!!
Ciao!
Rosy

[prahcello]

Hi Jacques-Henry,

Thanks for your message regarding the EMI Beethoven cycle. I was also wondering whether to buy it as I had already purchased the complete EMI orchestra recordings set, which also includes the Beethoven cycle, albeit in the 1989 remastering.

Sometimes, in spite of so-called 'technological advances' since 1980s and 1990s, EMI's remastering for certain historical recordings have been absolutely HORRIBLE (the 1997 Maria Callas Edition comes to mind).

Often EMI have been known to not remaster from the ORIGINAL analogue tapes, but from DIGITAL transfer of the analogue material made when digital technology was not at its peak. The answer why is very simple: it takes less time and money to get digital tapes out than to get old analogue tapes from the vaults.

Deutsche Grammophon is a company that takes care more often than EMI for their restorations of analogue recordings. However, it has been mentioned already that the DG Bruckner cycle that is going to be reissued soon has not been remastered. So all companies are somehow guilty of not paying complete attention to its catalogue of recordings.

Paul

[jhgaulard]

Paul,
I think you are good with the 1989 remastering. life flows through it and it "hears" genuine. Good enough for me.
I agree about your comment with regards to DG.
THAT remastered Heldenleben from 1959 sounds awsome and I have decided to use the 1972 Till (on the same CD) as a demo for my stereo, it sounds so good!
SO well done DG.