Beethoven DVDs

[Dave]

A few years ago, I had one of those Karajan DVDs of a Beethoven symphony that Sony brought out. I actually lost it in the move when I left university.

I'm thinking of going the whole hog this time with some HvK Beethoven DVDs, but I'm slightly confused. I know about the Sony cycle, but there is also this newish one from DG. And I also hear references to a 'Unitel' one; is that just another name for one of these two sets?

But what I was really looking for are opinions on which sets offer the best performances/best films, as I assume they are different. I was already leaning towards the DG set as they have been re-mastered, but I await your comments. This YouTube user has videos of all 9 in his account:

www.youtube.com/user/magic5227

I gather that these are the DG ones, so it would be helpful if someone could confirm this. But the 5th he uses is also curious:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhcR1ZS2hVo

It's the only one in black and white, which makes me think this is the famous Clouzot version; the style of the filming suggests as much. Does this come with either the DG or the Sony set, or does it need to be purchased seperately?

A bit muddled I know, but I hope you can see what I'm getting at

Many thanks.

P.S. I got my Karajan in Concert DVD last week and am supremely happy with it!

[Rosy]

Dear Dave,

The DG- Box Beethoven cycle, 70 years, that "Magic 5227" shows us on "You Tube" is absolutely my favourite. There's pieces in B/N ( Sinfonia "Pastorale", for example), maybe desired by the director Hugo Niebeling, who has also used special effects . I wrote an article (in another site that it will be published in Autumn) where I explain the steps for implementing the movies and I take as an example the cycle I just mentioned, especially those originally directed by Hugo Niebeling, then amended by Karajan (Sinfonia No 3, "Eroica" and Sinfonia N° 7)

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Yes, the Beethoven Symphony N° 5, is directed by G.Clouzot , EuroArt-Unitel Label. In this DVD,there's rehearsal and performance, and there's rehearsal and performans of Symphony N° 4 by R. Schumann!

Sorry for inaccurate explanation. Later I'll give you more information...

Ah!, The "Unitel" is often in corporation with other companies, in fact, in the covers album, you can see written : "Deutsche Grammophon" or "EuroArts" etc..., at the top, and "Unitel", at the bottom.

Ciao!
Rosy

[Rosy]

Dave,

Here are the addresses that may be of interest to you:

DG address for Beethoven DVD Box Complete Symphonies:

www2.ham.deutschegrammophon.com/cat/=0734107

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Amazon address for Beethoven No 5 B/N Title: "Herbert von Karajan in Rehearsal and Performance".
(Look at DVD No 5)

www.tinyurl.com/5uhdaj

Dave, please tell me if I was useful. Sometime I responded to your posts, but I don't know if what I wrote was clear or helpful!

[lee]

Hi Dave

I hope you are well.

Yes, this issue can be confusing for some. Karajan generally made films for two companies throughout his career - during the 1960's to late '70's this would have been Unitel and from the early 1980's onwards for Telemondial. Most of the Unitel films have been released on DVD for Deutsche Grammophon whereas the Telemondial are the ones on Sony.

In the case of the Beethoven cycles, there are some clear differences between the two. The Unitel/DG cycle was taped from around 1967-1973 in decent stereo sound and showcase Karajan and the Berlin PO in their heyday, the Maestro portrayed in his iconic "eyes wide shut" conducting style. Some of the films (of Nos 1,2,4,5 & 8) are "concert hall" performances, whereas nos 3 and 7 have the orchestra in front of the conductor in tiers, rather like a Roman amphitheatre. The Pastoral is something completely different....... They are all in colour - the black and white film you refer to is indeed the earlier Clouzot version.

The Sony/Telemondial cycle is more consistent in its presentation, being films of mainly live concerts of Karajan and the BPO performing the works (with patch up sessions afterwards). The music making is the same as on the later DG Digital Beethoven cycle CDs and show the elderly Karajan, eyes open, with gestures limited rather in the many of Richard Strauss. The sound is Digital but not necessarily that much better than the early DG analogue recordings. The price of this set though could well be a factor, for in spite of its later vintage, is about a third of the cost of the DG Unitel cycle.

Personally, for all of its flaws, I prefer the earlier DG/Unitel cycle. This really captures the magic of Karajan and the BPO. The playing of the orchestra is quite extraordinary in all the symphonies and Karajan, eyes closed as if in prayer, looks as if he is conjuring the music up from the spirit of Beethoven himself. The later performances are perhaps more spontaneous sounding, but the orchestra's execution is not as razor sharp as before (although still pretty stunning by anyone's standards) and Karajan's own contribution is limited by the spinal problems that dogged him in the later years of his life.

Perhaps the solution would be to buy the Sony set - since this is the one that you are familiar with - and supplement it with the 1965 black and white Clouzot Beethoven 5 (as suggested by Rosy above), a better performance IMHO than either of the later ones and perhaps then you would have the best of both worlds. However, I'm sure that others would have their own opinions and look forward to reading them.

Hope this is of some help,

Lee

[Dave]

Hi Rosy and Lee,

Many thanks for your replies.

Rosy, I actually recall seeing that Schumann rehearsal on a Sky channel at one point, so I'm pleased the Beethoven is similar because I thought it was fantastic. I only just finished Richard Osborne's biography, so I had read a bit about it in there.

And thanks for your detailed analysis, Lee. Truth be told, I find the 'younger' Karajan films I have experienced to be slightly better. I remember the Sony DVD I had having excellent sound, but I prefer the 'sound' of the orchestra itself from the 60s and 70s, and younger Karajan is better from a visual standpoint - at least for me. Therefore, I am leaning towards the DG set, even if it does contain that 'offence against music' film of No.6. But thanks for your comments, both of you, and I'll let you know should I pick either set up.

Thanks again.

[Rosy]

HI Dave!

I'm sorry... We espect your good news and we hope that you have solved with the work!!

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Ciao!
Rosy

[Rosy]

Sept 3, 2008 12:58:12 GMT 1 lee said:

The playing of the orchestra is quite extraordinary in all the symphonies and Karajan, eyes closed as if in prayer, looks as if he is conjuring the music up from the spirit of Beethoven himself.

Lee

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(...In truth, I shouldn't say, buy I wrote it in some posts: I've a great attraction to Beethoven cycle 1967/73 years.)

I like very much Lee's phrase and I think exactly the same thing! In the Symphony No. 6 "Pastorale", there are some flash in B/N perhaps desired by Hugo Niebeling. It's a beautiful piece with the transparent clarinet that moves alone!!! The music of Symphonies No. 3 and 7, borders the perfection and this causes me the chills; whenever I listen and watch them, I'm fascinated and amazed...gestures and music have the same rythm and the same breath that beats in the Universe.

...........continue..........

[Rosy]

Hello again Dave!

I'm writing you same thoughts about Beethoven's Symponies No. 3 and 7 conducted by Karajan in 1971. (From the DG-Set ). These film have a great fascination for the perfect agreement between image and sound, the "see" takes nothing away to listen, indeed, extremely eloquent Maestro's gestures add something to full appreciation of the magnificent symphonies. The Maestro, firmly glued to the podium, running gestures that seem to follow a specific ceremonial, almost a prayer (as says Lee), that pushes the sound beyond all imagination. The rythm, especially in the Sympony No. 7 is so accurate that waiver, if I may say so, a little to his legato, reaching an astonishing harmony.

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The Symphony No. 3, "Eroica" I refer to 2nd mov., shows a beautiful arpeggio of string instruments, in brief assolo, a dazzling light, an hope?, invests the scene, while the intervening wind instruments to support that moment of sus- pension of Time. The Maestro marks a time that is not. The baton, held vertically between two fingers in front of his face, seems to want to reveal to musicians that they have come in a unknown dimension...

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My mind, for a strange association, leads me to recall the Symphony No. 3, in particular the Marcia Funebre, conducted by Victor De Sabata, when Arturo Toscanini died. ( Karajan loved both). Even that time, music made a little miracle, at the hands of the great Maestro Victor De Sabata. I heard a bad record on the radio many years ago, but I have in my mind that poignant execution!

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Dave, I haven't written these my consideration to convince that DG Beethoven cycle 70s is the best , however, in my humble opinion it's very special interpretation. About Symphony No. 6, "Pastorale", well, I must admit that Karajan is always very engaging with or without special effects that I do not give any disturb because- my point of view- there isn't lack of respect towards Music!!!

Thank you, Dave for giving me the opportunity to treat my favourite topics
Rosy