Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
|
Post by Rosy on Aug 4, 2009 8:57:11 GMT 1
Catalin, one thing is loving visceral and totally the work of Karajan, and all of us, like you, love him and his work so much, another thing is making a purely correct discourse from musicological point of view! I admit to being obstinate and pedantic...  ********************** Rosy |
|
|
|
Post by Catalin N. R. on Aug 4, 2009 10:06:17 GMT 1
...the Maestro said this or the Maestro has decided so, not automatically became right thing; anyone, including Karajan, has the gift of better choice, [...] I don't agree with this. I'm sure the Maestro has made the best choices for his art. Of course I know that you and the others are loving him and his work "totally and viscerally", as you said! But I think we should not criticize him at all. A correct musiological discourse should never be critical with regard to the great Karajan. I can't be more unbiassed speaking about the Maestro... I told you in private that I'm a bit fanatic. Yes, and I know you are too...  With kind regards, Catalin |
|
Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
|
Post by Rosy on Aug 4, 2009 11:42:42 GMT 1
Catalin, Criticism can be positive or negative! To criticize don't mean to judge. Furthermore, a critical analysis of the work of an interpreter is desirable and is the best thing that can be made to know and to appreciate him better. Yes, I'm a fanatic too, but I want to respect the Maestro, I want the reality and not what I wish. Surely, I am very sorry when someone expresses opinions on him without knowing him; this is deeply wrong. A careful analysis of his work, that it has no comparison in the history of music, without prejudices is right and desirable. Is Herbert von Karajan the greatest musical interpreter of all time? If yes, I want to know why, and I want to find out what are the characteristics that make him the best, not the best a priori!  ********************** Rosy |
|
|
|
Post by Catalin N. R. on Aug 4, 2009 12:05:31 GMT 1
Criticism can be positive or negative! To criticize don't mean to judge. Furthermore, a critical analysis of the work of an interpreter is desirable and is the best thing that can be made to know and to appreciate him better. Here you are right, Rosy. I thought only at the negative criticism, like Lebrecht's one. Yes, you are in the right, a good historical criticism is a nature to help a good artist, or an exceptional one, like Karajan. Of course, a good criticism should make evident the giant side of his personality and work. Best wishes, Catalin |
|
|
|
Post by Catalin N. R. on Aug 4, 2009 17:35:19 GMT 1
Is Herbert von Karajan the greatest musical interpreter of all time? If yes, I want to know why, and I want to find out what are the characteristics that make him the best, not the best a priori! Dear Rosy, You are sly: you edited your posting and have added the above text, after I had answered to your original post... Are you asking me to define the Beauty, the Sublime, the Magnificence? I think I couldn't define these concepts even if I would have written all the books about the Maestro that you have ever read... Which are the general lines that make him the best musician of all times? I think, the accuracy of the musical phrasing, the force and the strength that you can feel only in his music, the German correctness and, unexpectedly, the sense of temperance. I've recently listened the Overture and Preludes by Verdi and I deeply felt this temperance. Also I like that his most melodic music is rendered as a symphonic music, not a dancing one (see the Strauss Waltzes or the Prelude of La Traviata). The tragical character of some pieces is also astonishing. Yes, as I said you in private, Karajan has re-created in fact the music, while the other conductors have only interpreted it. I think the music couldn't sound much better in Beethoven's mind or in Vivaldi's hand than under Karajan's baton... I often listen The Four Seasons with Anne-Sophie Mutter: what a perfect sense of the authenticity! I feel as if the music would be conducted by Vivaldi himself (setting aside the improvement of the violins in the 19th century). Well, I passed much beyond the limits of this topic, but you incited me... With kind regards, Catalin |
|
thitch
Junior Member
Posts: 25
|
Post by thitch on Aug 5, 2009 9:40:54 GMT 1
Hello Rosy and Catalin. This topic of 'splicing' is most interesting and reminds me of the Maestro's affinity with another artist in this regard. Glenn Gould's idea of the perfect life, it was once said, is 250 days a year in the recording studio. He left much on paper as regards his thoughts on recording - he believed the perfect performance could be constructed bit by bit in the studio, using as many tape splices as necessary to achieve his perfect thoughts on a piece, note-by-note if need be. I'm fascinated by his thought processes and approach to musical performance, and of course we cannot forget his admiration for Herbert von Karajan.
Helen Mesaros' recent book on Gould ("Bravo Fortissimo") devotes a number of pages to Glenn's and Karajan's similar thoughts on the nature of a recording as a creation in itself. It is related how in 1976 when the Maestro was on tour with the Berlin Philharmonic in New York, Gould drafted a tentative scenario where he would record his piano part of Beethoven's Second Concerto separately from the orchestral part, and they would be mashed together later in the studio, "a meeting of the minds without actually meeting."
Gould also much admired the Maestro's recording of Sibelius' Fifth. They did have an affinity in many ways when it came to the understanding of the power of the recording to capture an 'ideal' and any means that could achieve that were wholly legitimate. It is an aspect that, again, I do indeed find fascinating, and worthy of further discussion.
Regards,
Tim.
|
|
|
|
Post by Catalin N. R. on Aug 5, 2009 11:43:41 GMT 1
Hi Alexander, I knew there is also an earlier recording of The Four Seasons, but I didn't listen it yet. I will search for it. Hope when I'll find it, not to be biased because I listened Mutter first: it happens to me.  With kind wishes, Catalin |
|
|
|
Post by Catalin N. R. on Aug 5, 2009 13:33:18 GMT 1
Hello Tim,
I''m glad you brought the discussion back to its subject. Yes, I'm sure that the studio recordings, even if mixed down, are a invaluable source for those who want to know the conception of the Maestro about his own performances. To me, his DGG Beethoven Symphonies cycle remains, whatever would be other's perception on it, a masterpiece. I don't know who is responsible for the image mix, von Karajan or Hugo Niebeling, but the result is grandiose.
I don't know much about Glenn Gould's studio productions, I'm sorry, but as I understand, the man was a visionary pianist and an admirer and collaborator of Karajan.
With kind regards,
Catalin
|
|
|
|
Post by Catalin N. R. on Aug 5, 2009 15:46:31 GMT 1
Alexander, Thank you very much for the information. I've searched this version, but it can't be found in The Complete EMI Recordings (that I most often am listening). I have added it to my list of wishes. I hope I will find it, because if this Michel Schwalbe is better than Anne-Sophie Mutter, that means it is worth. Thanks again, Alexander. I'm going to look for the CD right now. With kind regards, Catalin P.S. Me too I love the analog recordings. They remind me of my youth. |
|
Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
|
Post by Rosy on Aug 5, 2009 17:55:59 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by Catalin N. R. on Aug 5, 2009 18:09:44 GMT 1
Thank you for the link, Rosy. I will listen, of course! I think it's excellent.
EDIT: And IT IS! I must to buy it!
With kind regards,
Catalin
|
|
Rosy
Senior Member
Posts: 540
|
Post by Rosy on Aug 5, 2009 19:10:44 GMT 1
Hi Alexander, sometimes, in proceedings of remastering, the sound of string instruments are penalized, but in this case, it seems to me that the Art of the great Schwalbe has been preserved intact, in my opinion, and if I say this, that I adore the sound of vinyl! ************************ Rosy |
|
|
|
Post by hgmarch on Aug 5, 2009 22:22:50 GMT 1
I have this album and it has TWO DVD's.
Henri Marchand
|
|
|
|
Post by Catalin N. R. on Aug 6, 2009 9:15:05 GMT 1
Rosy, You were right: you has modified your posting (Aug 4, 2009, 1:42pm) before my first reply. Perhaps I didn't notice that your post was modified. Please don't be angry with me because of the word "sly", which is not necessarely negative. I put it there in kidding, and anyone who knows English can understand that. I really didn't mean to offend you... I apologize!!!  With kind regards, Catalin |
|
|
|
Post by Catalin N. R. on Aug 6, 2009 17:32:03 GMT 1
Alexander,
Have you noticed, the third CD in the link given by Rosy, is another release of The Four Seasons, also with Michel Schwalbe, date 2nd Aug. 1993. Unfortunately this CD is now unavailable from Deuthsche Grammophon (but for download).
With kind regards,
Catalin
|
|
